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离线Blink

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只看该作者 300楼 发表于: 2012-05-16
引用第299楼focus于2012-05-16 06:14发表的  :
A生。好彩你冇聽我講,未賣?就賺番d.
天然气好似跟隨條理性投機性的玩票。
它好象風一樣變。尤如拋個銀仔空中開大小。
真的。完全混亂著我!跟進天然氣,咁耐。
.......

A生話已賣,免強夠請你飲茶,有時間就找他吧。
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只看该作者 301楼 发表于: 2012-05-16
FW: 从Facebook的IPO看风险投资

   Facebook下周将进行IPO,对于风险投资基金Accel Partners而言,这将是收获累累硕果的时刻。后者在马克•扎克伯格2005年筹建Facebook时提供过初始资金,现在仍是Facebook的最大外部投资者。Accel Partners的成功验证了一个定理:最成功的风险投资基金往往是小型风投。

    近年来,风险投资基金流年不利,Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation最近发布报告指出,“在我们的投资组合中,没有哪只规模超过5亿美元的基金,在扣除相关费用后,能带来我们投入资本两倍以上的收益。”无独有偶,另一位风投家最近给我发来了一份未经公开的白皮书,该报告引用汤森路透(Thomson Reuters)的数据,一针见血地指出,“在超过7.5亿美元的风险投资基金中,没有一笔能为有限合伙人投资者带来两倍以上的收益。”

    让我们来回顾一下Accel:早在2002年,该公司陷入困境。当时,该公司Accel Partners VIII基金的规模达到16亿美元,这支基金募集于互联网泡沫的巅峰时期,但随后的失败意味着Accel的资金已经超出它能合理投资的范围。这是风险投资公司当时普遍面临的问题,很多公司都向投资者表示,他们不会调用承诺资本的40%或50%。

    然而,Accel尝试了一种不同的战略——分裂。我当时撰文写道:

    Accel希望保存已经受托的16亿美元,将这些资金分散到Fund VIII以及全新的Fund IX这两只基金中。如此一来,Accel将能够锁定其30%的附带收益结构,并显著延长其投资跑道。

    不过,Accel的投资者们认为自己上当受骗了。他们拒绝了这项提议,最终,Accel不得不将基金规模削减至大约7.7亿美元(通过两次削减)。

    随后两年,Accel一蹶不振,不断亏钱。在目睹Accel的悲惨境地及其少得可怜的回报后,许多有限合伙人决定与其分道扬镳。哈佛大学、麻省理工学院和普林斯顿大学决定不再向Accel Partners IX投资,后者最终仅仅筹集到4.4亿美元。

    事实证明,这些学校所犯的错误堪称昂贵。因为Accel Partners IX目前持有大约1.495亿股Facebook股票。Facebook将其IPO发行价定在28至35美元区间,如果最终价格取中间值的话,Acce所持有的股票将价值超过47亿美元。我们还未将Accel此前在二级市场售出的Facebook股票计算在内,有人声称仅仅通过之前的这些交易,Accel就已经收回了对Facebook的全部投资。

    现在看来,Accel完全可能在2005年时通过其“分裂”的16亿美元基金投资Facebook。但情况并非如此。在手握16亿美元时,Accel的风投基金是失败者。在仅剩4.4亿美元后,它极有希望成为有史以来效益最好的风投基金——尤其是将Accel投资的Glam Media等公司计算在内的话。

    “风投基金越袖珍越好”,Accel堪称这一论点最新也是最强有力的证据。

    译者:项航

    When Facebook goes public next week, it will mean a massive payday for Accel Partners -- the venture capital firm that originally backed Mark Zuckerberg in 2005 and remains the company's largest outside investor. It also could help support an argument that the most successful VC funds are small VC funds.

    In a recent report on the sad stage of venture capital, the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation wrote: "We have no funds in our portfolio that raised more than $500 million and returned more than two times our invested capital after fees." More broadly speaking a venture capitalist recently sent me an unpublished white paper (dated March 2011) that uses Thomson Reuters data to claim that "no venture fund larger than $750 million has ever returned more than 2.0x to its limited partner investors."

    This brings us to Accel: Back in 2002, the firm was in trouble. It was investing out of a $1.6 billion fund (Accel Partners VIII) that had been raised at the height of the dotcom bubble, but the resulting bust meant that Accel had more money than it could reasonably invest. It was a common problem in VC-land, with many firms simply telling investors that they wouldn't call down 40% or 50% of committed capital.

    Accel, however, tried a different strategy -- split. From a story I wrote at the time:

    Accel, on the other hand, wants to maintain the $1.6 billion already committed by spreading it over the life of both Fund VIII and a brand new Fund IX. By doing so, Accel would be able to lock in its 30% carried interest structure and significantly lengthen its investment runway.

    Accel's investors, however, thought they smelled a shell game. They rejected the proposal, and Accel ultimately agreed to slash the fund size down to around $770 million (via a pair of cuts).

    When Accel went back out for money two years later, it learned that the episode -- plus poor returns -- had burned bridges with a number of limited partners. Longtime investors like Harvard, MIT and Princeton decided not to come back for Accel Partners IX, which closed on just $440 million.

    It has proven to be a costly mistake for the Ivys, because Accel Partners IX currently holds around 149.5 million shares of Facebook stock. If the social network prices its IPO in the middle of its proposed $28-$35 range, the position would be worth more than $4.7 billion. And that doesn't even include the Facebook shares Accel already has sold on the secondary market, which some say may have already returned the entire fund.

    Now it's entirely possible that Accel would have funded Facebook in 2005 through its "split" $1.6 billion fund. But that's not what happened. At $1.6 billion, Accel's fund was a loser. At $440 million, it likely will become the best-performing venture capital fund of all time -- particularly once other portfolio companies like Glam Media get factored in.

    Consider it just the latest, and largest, data point to support the "smaller VC funds are better" argument.
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只看该作者 302楼 发表于: 2012-05-16
似乎有不少人看好Facebook,而你們的高見又如何?
离线扶摇直上

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只看该作者 303楼 发表于: 2012-05-16
[quote]引用第302楼Blink于2012-05-16 11:25发表的  :
似乎有不少人看好Facebook,而你們的高見又如何?
好东西,可惜太贵了!
离线扶摇直上

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只看该作者 304楼 发表于: 2012-05-16
纪念95年的5。18.……纪念99年的5.19…明天再怎样都要买股票……哈哈
[ 此帖被扶摇直上在2012-05-16 21:51重新编辑 ]
2条评分金钱+6
Blink 金钱 +3 呵呵.....似乎是好日子。 2012-05-18
focus 金钱 +3 哈哈,5-18,週五,Facebook的首次公開招股 2012-05-17
离线focus

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只看该作者 305楼 发表于: 2012-05-17
哈哈,5-18,週五,Facebook的首次公開招股
离线focus

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只看该作者 306楼 发表于: 2012-05-17
引用第302楼Blink于2012-05-16 11:25发表的  :
似乎有不少人看好Facebook,而你們的高見又如何?[表情]
沒有!我不會買它。我覺得它是高估.
此外,Facebook首席執行官花了1億買intagram.
551日齡Instagram的是價值1億美元。 116歲的紐約時報公司:$967萬
我的猜測:
1)他不知道有多少Intagram worthed?
2)他是聰明的,花了10億買這intagram,以推動其IPO價格上漲...如果是這樣,CEO是一個非常spectaculor,作為CEO這樣的行為,可能是危險的。
......如果你想獲得一些股份,等待,看看它是如何去?
[ 此帖被focus在2012-05-17 13:08重新编辑 ]
Simply the Best!
离线Blink

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只看该作者 307楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
引用第303楼扶摇直上于2012-05-16 21:38发表的  :
[quote]引用第302楼Blink于2012-05-16 11:25发表的  :
似乎有不少人看好Facebook,而你們的高見又如何?
好东西,可惜太贵了!

市場上講究是收益与亏损的百分比,必要時可貴賣貴買.....
离线Blink

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只看该作者 308楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
呵呵.....似乎是好日子。
离线Blink

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只看该作者 309楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
引用第306楼focus于2012-05-17 12:46发表的  :
沒有!我不會買它。我覺得它是高估.
此外,Facebook首席執行官花了1億買intagram.
551日齡Instagram的是價值1億美元。 116歲的紐約時報公司:$967萬
我的猜測:
1)他不知道有多少Intagram worthed?
.......

哈,A生的看法与你雷同;Blink持觀望態度;Blink's 孩子認為買入......哈哈
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只看该作者 310楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
繼續...

Facebook定于本周IPO,令华尔街兴奋不已。但巨大的兴奋不一定能给投资者带来巨大的回报。不妨掏出计算器,让我们纯粹从数字角度,冷静地算算Facebook要达到怎样的业绩,才能让在一片赞誉声中买入IPO股票的投资者获得良好回报。

    如果Facebook的IPO定价在28-35美元指导区间的中点,它的初始市值将为860亿美元左右。这相当于Facebook 2011年净利润10亿美元的86倍。我们假设股东们希望年投资回报率为10%,看看七年后。如果Facebook要给出这样的回报率,需要实现怎样的净利润和营收?

    根据我们的估算,如果不派息(高速发展的科技公司通常都是这样),到2019年年中,Facebook的股价需要累计上涨95%。假定Facebook总股本每年至少增加1%,这也是合理的,主要是向员工发放的期权。“这是一个非常保守的估算,”咨询公司Shareholder Value Advisors的史蒂夫•欧拜恩表示。因此,随着已发行股本扩大7%,股价上涨95%(即每年涨10%),届时Facebook的市值将达到1800亿美元。

    很难预料Facebook 2019年的市盈率,但我们假定为20倍。这个比率已经很高,因为它意味着投资者期待未来一些年公司将延续高于平均的增速,即便是在7年的高速增长后。

    因此,Facebook将需要实现近90亿美元的净利润,才能让投资者获得漂亮的10%年回报——虽然还算不上亮丽。复合年增长率37%。光是2018年年中到2019年年中,Facebook就必须再增加25亿美元的利润。要达到我们的目标,还需要Facebook留存盈利再投资的回报率达到37%。这相当于美国大公司平均净资产回报率的三倍。

    然后,让我们把时间轴再向后延五年,假定10%的回报率继续。到那个时候,Facebook的市盈率应略回落,假定为18倍,因为它已成长为一个成熟的行业巨头。因此,在2023年, Facebook的市值将需要再增长66%至2,970亿美元。如果是18倍市盈率,它的利润将达到165亿美元。

    可供参考的是Facebook的市值将超过今天的微软(Microsoft)。另外需要指出的是,2011年只有9家财富500强公司的净利润达到或超过了150亿美元。

    如果Facebook保持2011年的销售利润率27%,到2023年它的销售额将需要达到610亿美元。预计到2023年全球广告营收将从目前的约4300亿美元增至7000多亿美元。因此, 十二年后,Facebook需要从神奇小子变身一个能占据全球广告市场约8%份额的公司,从谷歌(Google)、新闻集团(News Corp)等公司手中抢夺业务。

    会有这样的事情发生吗?当然。但像这样的简单估算,绝不会破坏华尔街欢庆Facebook IPO的兴致。

    译者:早稻米

    The Facebook IPO scheduled for this week is generating a rush of exhilaration on Wall Street. But big excitement doesn't necessarily translate into big money for investors. So let's pull out our calculators and take a sober, just-the-numbers look at what Facebook needs to achieve to enrich the fans who buy its shares after what is being billed at the debut of the decade.

    If Facebook is priced at the mid-point of the estimated $28 to $35 a share range, it will start with a market cap of around $86 billion. That's 86 times its 2011 earnings of $1 billion. So let's assume shareholders want 10% annual returns from their investment, then look out seven years from now. What earnings and revenues does Facebook need to produce those 10% returns?

    In our experiment, by mid-2019, Facebook must lift its price per share 95%, assuming it pays no dividends –– normally the case with fast-rising players in tech. It's also reasonable to assume that Facebook adds at least 1% to its share count each year, mainly by issuing stock options to employees. "That's an extremely conservative estimate," says Steve O'Byrne of consulting firm Shareholder Value Advisors. So with 7% more shares outstanding, and a stock price that grows by 95% (that's 10% a year), Facebook would reach a market cap of $180 billion.

    It's impossible to know what PE multiple Facebook will garner in 2019, but we'll assume it's 20. That figure is generous since it means investors are expecting more years of faster-than-average growth, even after seven years of frenzied expansion.

    Hence, Facebook would need earnings of almost $9 billion to hand investors nice -- but hardly spectacular -- 10% gains. That's a compound annual growth rate of 37%. From mid-2018 to mid-2019 alone, Facebook would have to generate an additional $2.5 billion in profits. It would also require extraordinary, 37% gains on each dollar of retained earnings it reinvests to reach our milestone. That's three times the average return on equity of America's large companies.

    Now let's extend our horizon another five years and forecast that the 10% returns keep coming. By then, Facebook's PE should fade a bit to, say, 18, reflecting its status as a maturing giant. So in 2023, Facebook's market cap would need to rise another 66% to $297 billion. Its profits would hit $16.5 billion at our 18 PE.

    For context, Facebook would be worth more than Microsoft (MSFT) is today. It's also interesting to note that only nine Fortune 500 companies earned $15 billion or more in 2011.

    If Facebook maintains its 2011 margin on sales of 27%, its sales would need to reach $61 billion by 2023. Global advertising revenues are projected to grow to from around $430 billion today to well over $700 billion by 2023. So Facebook would need to go from a glamor name to capturing something like 8% of all of the world's ad market in 12 years, grabbing business from the likes of Google (GOOG) and News Corp (NWS).

    Can it happen? Sure. But nothing spoils a Wall Street party like a sermon on the math.
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只看该作者 311楼 发表于: 2012-05-18

Facebook will officially start trading at 11am tomorrow. Priced at $38./shr. too high.
Facebook's main revenue from advertisement. unlike apple.
probable the ceo collects his money, and leave... who knows?
... if you really want to get some. you may not be able to get it as ipo price.
i am sure its price will go up tomorrow, up, then will drop,,,
usually, a company decides to go public, they will do anything to push its value sky high,,, then drop.
( e.g. your company goes public, your employer offers his employees to purchase shares at ipo price,
then, the employees may ask later, "how come employee purchase are high more expensive...)
Good luck!
................................................................................................................................................
Facebook將正式開始交易明天上午11點。售價$38./shr。過高。
Facebook的主要收入來自廣告。不像蘋果。
可能首席執行官收集他的錢,並留下......誰知道?
...如果你真的想要得到一些。你可能無法得到它作為新股發行價格。
我相信它的價格將上浮,明天起來,然後將下降,
後容易,公司決定上市,他們會想盡一切辦法,以推動其價值比天高,然後下降。
(如您的公司上市,您的雇主提供其僱員,在新股發行價格購買股票,
然後,員工可能會要求後,“怎麼來的僱員購買更昂貴的高...)

Simply the Best!
离线focus

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只看该作者 312楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
我想石油是自由落體,享受騎....回來的正常價格是88美元。
................................................................................................
i think oil is on a freefall,,, enjoy the ride ..
.. its coming back to normal pricing which is 88 dollars.
Simply the Best!
离线扶摇直上

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只看该作者 313楼 发表于: 2012-05-18
[quote]引用第307楼Blink于2012-05-18 12:24发表的  :

市場上講究是收益与亏损的百分比,必要時可貴賣貴買.....
在中国,这玩意可炒到100以上在美国就可要看看了……
离线Blink

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只看该作者 314楼 发表于: 2012-05-21
引用第313楼扶摇直上于2012-05-18 15:15发表的  :
[quote]引用第307楼Blink于2012-05-18 12:24发表的  :
市場上講究是收益与亏损的百分比,必要時可貴賣貴買.....
在中国,这玩意可炒到100以上在美国就可要看看了……

哦?
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